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#51335 - 01/23/11 04:02 PM The Ghost in the Canon: Hidden in Plain Sight
17DaneOx Offline
curious

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 41
"The Authorship Debate". The word "debate" (speaking only for myself) casts a rather long shadow. I'm thrust back to high school and college debates where we were taught how to listen to one another, and refute what they had to say with Latin terms. If we perceived someone saying something like, "But we have always done it this way" (an argument appealing to antiquity or tradition), we might refute whatever premise they were making by first saying: "argumentum ad antiquitatem", followed by our disagreement; or if the opposing debater makes some sweeping generalization we first say "dicto simpliciter". Not that this is not a great teaching device, but "debate", for me, has somewhat the spectre, the shadow, of argument for its own sake--the assumption that one must disagree (and concentrate on how this is so), rather than seek to understand an opposing point of view, and fine tune what points of view may have in common, and discard disagreements when analyzed and found to be deficient.

The point? So often, an open discussion turns contentious because someone attacks a person rather than an argument ("ad hominem"). The chain of comments then turn to ridicule, and so forth on down the line. This is so counterproductive. Not so, some may say? Okay, pick out a thread in the forum, and see how this happens--over and over again.

I could be mistaken, but it appears to me, when it comes to the case of ciphers, encryptions, cryptoanalysis, encoding, decoding, deciphering, etc., that what one is saying about them is often not really understood, or is not very well stated or defined--and, as it is with human nature, comments quickly become arguments "against the person (man)"--the ad hominem approach. This discourages many from participating. They just don't want the grief, the struggle just to be heard--which, I believe, is all we have. Forget trying to get more "people" on your side. It is enough, perhaps more desirable, just to understand the questions better. Make people less reticent to join in the discussion.

So, here is what I propose: that differing points of view (again, "points of view", not people) be what this new thread be all about. Look at some of the threads here at SFF--dozens, hundreds, some in the thousands of views--but very few responses. I think it may be that many feel they don't feel welcome because they are not Shakespeare scholars, and that because they are not, they will be personally attacked and ridiculed--and just give up. The ratio of response-to-post is numerically small. Perhaps curious readers are just that--they want to know what all the commotion is about. And this is fine, too.

I say, come one, come all. We are not in class, here. There should be no ridiculous questions or responses. Join in. Working with ciphers is fun!--Even though the ciphers, the hidden messages, are considered "alleged". So, ask questions, see if they can be answered. This is what all of this is about anyway: a public forum, not just a club for members.

I will gradually add some, if not all, of my previous postings to get the ball going.

Oh--I'll finish this post with my favorite quote as it relates to offering one's opinion:

"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." (underlining, mine) (Schopenhauer)
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#51336 - 01/23/11 04:33 PM Re: The Ghost in the Canon: Hidden in Plain Sight [Re: 17DaneOx]
17DaneOx Offline
curious

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 41
I was reading Hank Whittemore's Blog/webpage regarding the Sonnets 1609 Dedication ("To the Onlie Begetter . . . ") and the stated search for meaning in this dedication. A web search yielded many tortured interpretations of the grammar, the hidden meanings, the various analyses of the significance of the dots after each of the words. Here's mine. Possibly tortured, yet compared to other methods (and using the same method I always use, time after time), this is what I found. Raw probabilities over 1 million to one for deliberate placement within the Plaintext. However, since what I found is definitely there, with 100% percent certainty. It can be seen. So, the statistical probabilities of whether it is there or not is moot. The statistics, since they are raw, have to be taken with grain of salt. The letter-string is what really matters.

I placed no other significance to the dots other than treating each one as if it was part of the letter sequence; i.e., that the dots were part of the plaintext, and to be counted as such as an individual unit.

What a coincidence (?) to find this. No strings for : Sir Francis Bacon, William Shakespeare of Stratford, Christopher Marlowe, Greene, Nashe, and so forth. Why is it always de Vere--time and time again? What's the math to indicate random occurrence? A lot of the 'identifiers' are here: surname spelling on de Vere's birth announcement ("Veer")--which is the way John de Veer spelled his name; his title (Erl) . . . Coincidence?
(Equidistant Letter Sequence [ELS], skip/shift of one)



Attachments
Sonnets 1609 Dedication, To the Onlie (dots) GIF .gif(504 downloads)



Edited by 17DaneOx (01/23/11 04:34 PM)
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#51337 - 01/23/11 04:42 PM Re: The Ghost in the Canon: Hidden in Plain Sight [Re: 17DaneOx]
17DaneOx Offline
curious

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 41
The attachment above is the 1609 Sonnets Dedication, Array 19, treating the 'dots' as units in the ELS shift-of-one. The present attachment is Array 19 without the dots. Arguably a stronger, more emphatic message. Even an "echo" (or mirror) horizontal string in the center of the cluster.


Attachments
Sonnets Dedication, 1609--Without Dots GIF.gif(502 downloads)

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#51339 - 01/23/11 08:09 PM Re: The Ghost in the Canon: Hidden in Plain Sight [Re: 17DaneOx]
17DaneOx Offline
curious

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 41
I found this Letter-String in a sonnet attributed to Gascoigne. The first attachment is the plaintext of the sonnet. The Second attachment is an ELS of this poem. How does the presence of this happen by chance? Nothing about the Stratford Shakespeare, Sir Francis Bacon, Christopher Marlowe, et. al. Coincidence? If so, an explanation would be great.



Attachments
Gascoigne Sonnet Pic, JPEG.jpg (76 downloads)
Array 20 Gascoigne jpg..jpg (69 downloads)



Edited by 17DaneOx (01/23/11 08:10 PM)
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#52049 - 12/16/11 06:52 PM Re: The Ghost in the Canon: Hidden in Plain Sight [Re: 17DaneOx]
17DaneOx Offline
curious

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 41
"Henry" . . . "E. Ver" . . . "W.H." , the Sonnets 1609 Dedication, and coincidence . . .


Attachments
Sonnet 102, %22Henry, W.H.%22 JPEG.jpg (48 downloads)

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#52056 - 12/20/11 01:42 PM Re: The Ghost in the Canon: Hidden in Plain Sight [Re: 17DaneOx]
17DaneOx Offline
curious

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 41
Who wrote the 'anonymous' Leicester Epitaphium?


Edited by 17DaneOx (12/20/11 01:46 PM)
Edit Reason: Attachment missing
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#52058 - 12/20/11 06:08 PM Re: The Ghost in the Canon: Hidden in Plain Sight [Re: 17DaneOx]
17DaneOx Offline
curious

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 41
Sorry about the above--the attachment (JPEG) doesn't seem to get through--I'll try again.
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#52060 - 12/20/11 09:31 PM Re: The Ghost in the Canon: Hidden in Plain Sight [Re: 17DaneOx]
17DaneOx Offline
curious

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 41
I'll cross my fingers and hope this works.


Attachments
Leicester Epitaphium %22E.DeVeer%22 JPEG.jpg (47 downloads)

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#52098 - 12/31/11 06:07 PM Re: The Ghost in the Canon: Hidden in Plain Sight [Re: 17DaneOx]
17DaneOx Offline
curious

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 41
Does this sound somewhat like the 'solid flesh' soliloquy? Now just how did this get in a poem written by Edward de Vere, and published in "The Paradyse of Daynty Deuises" (1578?). Please show how this is a random occurrence, and not by deliberate placement within the plaintext . . .


Attachments
Hamlet, Edward de Vere JPEG #1 Use.jpg (80 downloads)
Hamlet, Edward de Vere, RP. JPEG #2.jpg (77 downloads)

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#52466 - 05/16/12 02:50 PM Re: The Ghost in the Canon: Hidden in Plain Sight [Re: 17DaneOx]
17DaneOx Offline
curious

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 41
Does Hamlet = E. De Vere?


Attachments
E. DEVERE, unseen JPEG 2.jpg (49 downloads)

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#52469 - 05/17/12 09:22 PM Re: The Ghost in the Canon: Hidden in Plain Sight [Re: 17DaneOx]
LAL Administrator Online
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curious

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 180
Loc: North Carolina
Can you find Thomas Sackville in there anywhere?
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